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Irwansyah
Posted May 27 - Read on Facebook

Hi Guys!

I just visited Famo.us web site and they released a new powerful engine. Is there any plan to incorporate Famo.us engine into Framer? Framer is so easy but Famous is difficult but more powerful so is it possible to built Framer on top of Famous?

14 Comments

Cemre Güngör

Hmm, I'm not quite sure I understand here. Is there a specific reason you want to see this integration? In other words, is there a certain use case that Framer doesn't fulfill for you that this thing would?

Irwansyah

Cemre Güngör I guess, I see it as Framer graphics engine is not as smooth as Famous engine when I tried to deploy it in an Android device. Or probably I am wrong?

Ken Miura

Framer is a prototyping tool. Famo.us, although not yet really mature, is a meant to be for deployment as "real" apps (or at least that's the goal). Those are fundamentally different goals to me, unless I'm missing something?

Irwansyah

Ken Miura I don't want to get into argument on the purpose of Framer. Because for an example, MS Excel is a spread sheet but people was using it for other purpose so then it evolve into a software that can acomodate user needs. Currently, I am using Framer not as a prototyping tool but as a platform to built a mobile apps or you can say it a brochure app because everything is an image. In fact, in Github I saw someone adds an input layer to Famous so I guess Framer can be used for app building tools and it has already done a good job by using CoffeeScript and a very user friendly APIs but it's still lacking a powerful graphics engine for that so that's why I want to know is there any plan to build Framer on top of Famous?

Ken Miura

I understand what you are saying, although I think in most cases, the engineering design is dictated by the purpose of the platform, so usually there's going to be a fundamental performance issue to use it for something else especially on embedded devices (I'm thinking Flash and it's ultimate demise). Having said that, isn't Famo.us essentially using CSS Transform capability to talk to the GPU at the bottom layer, so it should be on par with Framer, no? May be there are many other things Famo.us does to speed things up. Dunno.

Fran Pérez

I guess the question would be: is there something Framer can learn from famo.us to improve performance?

Irwansyah

Fran Pérez thanks man, that's nice!

George Kedenburg III

I think framer and famous should be pretty close from a perf perspective since they both use GPU accelerated animation. Is there something specific you're trying to do in framer that isn't being very performant?

Irwansyah

George Kedenburg III I am developing a mobile app using Ionic that I stripped out and use Framer as the UI. Everything is running smooth in my Mac but when I deployed into my Android device, the animation get choppy. It is just a simple x, y animation. So that's why I assume that Famous is more performant than Framer.

George Kedenburg III

To be honest, having tried to do native-like apps via web code on android, I don't think you're going to ever get the performance you want regardless of what framework you use. The native Android web view is the IE of mobile.

Jordan Robert Dobson

You can do it but you really really have to understand what you're doing.... And it's still really hard.

Irwansyah

I agree with you Jordan, I guess I just need to build my own library on top of Famous and borrowing the APi from Framer

Koen Bok

Short answer: no. Famous does two things that we might be able to learn from.

The first obvious one is WebGL which would really increase performance, but would lose things like basic text rendering, css, adding html to layers. There are approaches to solve that, but they could slow things down again or really get complicated. I'm also pretty sure it wouldn't solve your android problem like George said.

The biggest problem for Famous imho is that WebGL just kills your battery on mobile, and things like accessibility are completely broken. Pretty important things for a UI toolkit. But they have smart people so I'm curious how they'll solve it.

Another thing that Famous did, partly to avoid some of the downsides above, is something they call mixed mode. It allows you to have dom and WebGL layers at the same time. In theory, this sounds pretty cool, but we will have to see how well it will really work in practice. For example, what happens if you have an overlapping Dom layer between two WebGL layers that all have opacity set?

I think the two technologies we will be focussing on for perf is virtual dom and WebGL. But we'll definitely keep an eye on what they're doing because it's really interesting.

Koen Bok

Oh and apart from WebGL famous and Framer will have the exact same performance characteristics. We use the exact same way to move layers around.

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